1
00:00:07,590 --> 00:00:03,830
on this episode of skeptico

2
00:00:11,110 --> 00:00:07,600
a show about the left-right divide

3
00:00:13,990 --> 00:00:11,120
and a show about ufos and a show about

4
00:00:16,630 --> 00:00:14,000
why people believe weird things and a

5
00:00:19,670 --> 00:00:16,640
show about my epiphany when i realized

6
00:00:22,710 --> 00:00:19,680
that all this truth-seeking stuff that

7
00:00:24,710 --> 00:00:22,720
i'm so concerned with ultimately has a

8
00:00:27,189 --> 00:00:24,720
lot to do with

9
00:00:29,109 --> 00:00:27,199
values and beliefs

10
00:00:32,630 --> 00:00:29,119
and for me if i'm gonna strip all the

11
00:00:35,830 --> 00:00:32,640
way back to values and belief i gotta go

12
00:00:37,030 --> 00:00:35,840
to that fire walking self-development

13
00:00:40,310 --> 00:00:37,040
giant

14
00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:40,320
tony robbins here's a clip

15
00:00:43,030 --> 00:00:42,160
if i said to you which would you rather

16
00:00:44,389 --> 00:00:43,040
have

17
00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:44,399
success

18
00:00:47,430 --> 00:00:45,680
adventure

19
00:00:48,470 --> 00:00:47,440
outrageousness

20
00:00:51,510 --> 00:00:48,480
love

21
00:00:53,590 --> 00:00:51,520
comfort or feelings of security which

22
00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:53,600
would you pick some people say well gosh

23
00:00:57,990 --> 00:00:55,920
it's clear to me i want to absolutely

24
00:00:59,510 --> 00:00:58,000
have success that's what life is about

25
00:01:00,869 --> 00:00:59,520
other people go well success is nice but

26
00:01:03,029 --> 00:01:00,879
you know you can succeed and not be

27
00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:03,039
adventurous i want to be an adventurer

28
00:01:06,230 --> 00:01:05,280
i'd be going hey i want to be outrageous

29
00:01:07,270 --> 00:01:06,240
if you're outrageous you're going to

30
00:01:08,630 --> 00:01:07,280
have fun you're going to play you're

31
00:01:10,710 --> 00:01:08,640
going to have a great time in life other

32
00:01:12,950 --> 00:01:10,720
people go well that's all nice but what

33
00:01:14,230 --> 00:01:12,960
i want is love i mean you can have all

34
00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:14,240
those other things but if you don't feel

35
00:01:17,830 --> 00:01:16,000
love you don't have anything

36
00:01:19,270 --> 00:01:17,840
other people say no no no man i mean you

37
00:01:21,190 --> 00:01:19,280
can be loved but still not feel

38
00:01:23,190 --> 00:01:21,200
comfortable who wants to be loved and be

39
00:01:25,590 --> 00:01:23,200
in pain all the time

40
00:01:28,950 --> 00:01:25,600
all of us in life have learned to take

41
00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:28,960
different words that we call emotions

42
00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:31,600
and to give them levels of importance

43
00:01:36,870 --> 00:01:33,520
now you might be wondering what that has

44
00:01:39,590 --> 00:01:36,880
to do with part two of my interview with

45
00:01:41,429 --> 00:01:39,600
jimmy fallon gong who you heard from a

46
00:01:43,670 --> 00:01:41,439
couple episodes back

47
00:01:46,469 --> 00:01:43,680
and as i promised this episode is a

48
00:01:49,190 --> 00:01:46,479
little more skeptical back and forth

49
00:01:51,190 --> 00:01:49,200
paradigm collide kind of stuff here's a

50
00:01:53,910 --> 00:01:51,200
clip where jimmy and i are talking about

51
00:01:55,670 --> 00:01:53,920
how his radical left tin foil left i

52
00:01:58,109 --> 00:01:55,680
should say a term that he coined that is

53
00:02:00,630 --> 00:01:58,119
really i think fantastic about

54
00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:00,640
conspiratorially woke people who happen

55
00:02:06,469 --> 00:02:03,200
to be on the left here we are hashing

56
00:02:07,830 --> 00:02:06,479
out the issue of class

57
00:02:10,309 --> 00:02:07,840
because if you look at people who are

58
00:02:12,550 --> 00:02:10,319
traditionally on the right they go oh

59
00:02:14,470 --> 00:02:12,560
you're interfering with my liberty well

60
00:02:16,229 --> 00:02:14,480
if you look at people on the left

61
00:02:18,630 --> 00:02:16,239
they're saying the same thing you know

62
00:02:21,430 --> 00:02:18,640
you are somehow inhibiting the liberty

63
00:02:23,830 --> 00:02:21,440
of disadvantaged groups

64
00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:23,840
in a very real way when i hear you talk

65
00:02:28,070 --> 00:02:25,280
about class

66
00:02:31,270 --> 00:02:28,080
i'm just i'm just like thrown back like

67
00:02:34,390 --> 00:02:31,280
what the heck does he even mean by class

68
00:02:37,350 --> 00:02:34,400
my identification in terms of class is

69
00:02:39,670 --> 00:02:37,360
my grandfather who came over from greece

70
00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:39,680
when he's 14 years old with the five

71
00:02:43,350 --> 00:02:41,920
dollar bill sewn into his jacket that's

72
00:02:45,670 --> 00:02:43,360
all he had

73
00:02:47,190 --> 00:02:45,680
i'm wealthy now but that's just two

74
00:02:48,949 --> 00:02:47,200
generations

75
00:02:51,670 --> 00:02:48,959
isn't the dimension that we're really

76
00:02:53,509 --> 00:02:51,680
talking about class mobility yeah no i

77
00:02:55,270 --> 00:02:53,519
mean i think that there's sort of like

78
00:02:56,949 --> 00:02:55,280
this idea that

79
00:02:59,589 --> 00:02:56,959
i mean

80
00:03:01,750 --> 00:02:59,599
not everyone can be like a business

81
00:03:04,710 --> 00:03:01,760
owner not everyone can be the boss like

82
00:03:06,470 --> 00:03:04,720
not everyone can move up and so

83
00:03:08,710 --> 00:03:06,480
what what do you mean you take something

84
00:03:10,229 --> 00:03:08,720
you take well like

85
00:03:12,390 --> 00:03:10,239
you take something like labor unions

86
00:03:15,509 --> 00:03:12,400
like we were talking about and they

87
00:03:17,350 --> 00:03:15,519
basically were trying to yeah get a as

88
00:03:19,910 --> 00:03:17,360
large a group of people as possible to

89
00:03:21,190 --> 00:03:19,920
have a good standard of living and then

90
00:03:23,830 --> 00:03:21,200
you said

91
00:03:24,710 --> 00:03:23,840
that that way they could move up but

92
00:03:29,190 --> 00:03:24,720
like

93
00:03:31,910 --> 00:03:29,200
everyone who worked to be comfortable

94
00:03:33,509 --> 00:03:31,920
and to receive a fair slice of the pie

95
00:03:35,670 --> 00:03:33,519
because they are those are the people

96
00:03:36,710 --> 00:03:35,680
actually working not the shareholders

97
00:03:40,149 --> 00:03:36,720
not the

98
00:03:42,949 --> 00:03:40,159
most of the bosses right no like

99
00:03:45,190 --> 00:03:42,959
no that's not right i mean the whole

100
00:03:47,670 --> 00:03:45,200
principle of the united states and what

101
00:03:50,869 --> 00:03:47,680
it's built on and what really drives it

102
00:03:53,190 --> 00:03:50,879
is meritocracy is that people who

103
00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:53,200
deserve it never that's never actually

104
00:03:58,390 --> 00:03:56,400
been true though exactly so but that is

105
00:04:01,110 --> 00:03:58,400
that is the goal it's about the best

106
00:04:04,149 --> 00:04:01,120
moving forward it's meritocracy it's

107
00:04:06,390 --> 00:04:04,159
what your sho your show will succeed or

108
00:04:08,149 --> 00:04:06,400
fail based on how good it is no one

109
00:04:11,030 --> 00:04:08,159
needs to force people to listen to

110
00:04:13,429 --> 00:04:11,040
program to chill

111
00:04:14,710 --> 00:04:13,439
yeah i mean and i think that i would

112
00:04:16,710 --> 00:04:14,720
probably

113
00:04:18,789 --> 00:04:16,720
just emphasize in terms of the left

114
00:04:21,990 --> 00:04:18,799
right thing like

115
00:04:24,550 --> 00:04:22,000
yes liberty is a huge focus but liberty

116
00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:24,560
for who like what rights

117
00:04:27,990 --> 00:04:25,440
do

118
00:04:30,469 --> 00:04:28,000
if someone's free to make a million

119
00:04:32,469 --> 00:04:30,479
dollars but they literally can't

120
00:04:34,070 --> 00:04:32,479
what what does that matter if they're

121
00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:34,080
starving

122
00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:36,800
so as you might remember from last time

123
00:04:41,590 --> 00:04:39,280
jimmy has a terrific podcast called

124
00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:41,600
program to chill and the last time he

125
00:04:46,230 --> 00:04:44,320
was on we talked about the stuff that he

126
00:04:48,550 --> 00:04:46,240
really does so well these kind of deep

127
00:04:51,110 --> 00:04:48,560
dives into history and his unique

128
00:04:53,030 --> 00:04:51,120
ability to synthesize these little known

129
00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:53,040
facts into some pretty remarkable

130
00:04:57,350 --> 00:04:55,680
stories so when we got into all this

131
00:04:59,189 --> 00:04:57,360
other stuff during that interview i felt

132
00:05:01,830 --> 00:04:59,199
like i needed to break it into a second

133
00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:01,840
part and what i really want to pull out

134
00:05:05,110 --> 00:05:03,440
because it was as i mentioned somewhat

135
00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:05,120
of an epiphany for me

136
00:05:08,710 --> 00:05:06,000
this

137
00:05:09,830 --> 00:05:08,720
why people believe weird things which of

138
00:05:11,749 --> 00:05:09,840
course is

139
00:05:14,070 --> 00:05:11,759
dependent on who the person is who says

140
00:05:16,710 --> 00:05:14,080
the other person's beliefs are weird but

141
00:05:18,469 --> 00:05:16,720
again the epiphany for me was how maybe

142
00:05:21,270 --> 00:05:18,479
this is connected to

143
00:05:23,430 --> 00:05:21,280
values in a way that i hadn't fully

144
00:05:26,870 --> 00:05:23,440
considered i mean fundamentally there's

145
00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:26,880
nothing wrong with saying that security

146
00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:29,520
is your number one value

147
00:05:33,430 --> 00:05:30,960
just like there's nothing wrong with

148
00:05:36,550 --> 00:05:33,440
saying that success however you define

149
00:05:39,110 --> 00:05:36,560
success is your number one value

150
00:05:41,510 --> 00:05:39,120
and i guess this is obvious stuff but i

151
00:05:43,749 --> 00:05:41,520
know i've sput around on it for years

152
00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:43,759
and years without ever fully realizing

153
00:05:48,310 --> 00:05:46,160
that those values have a direct through

154
00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:48,320
line back to what we

155
00:05:51,670 --> 00:05:50,160
think is true

156
00:05:54,390 --> 00:05:51,680
and that applies to things like

157
00:05:57,830 --> 00:05:54,400
left-right politics as well as it does

158
00:05:59,110 --> 00:05:57,840
to a disbelief in left-right politics

159
00:06:02,150 --> 00:05:59,120
like i have

160
00:06:04,950 --> 00:06:02,160
and it even factors into all the

161
00:06:07,670 --> 00:06:04,960
extended consciousness kind of stuff

162
00:06:09,909 --> 00:06:07,680
that we talk about on skeptico here's

163
00:06:13,270 --> 00:06:09,919
the one from this interview that really

164
00:06:15,110 --> 00:06:13,280
sent me on tilt and that is the topic of

165
00:06:18,550 --> 00:06:15,120
ufos

166
00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:18,560
you said

167
00:06:22,150 --> 00:06:20,240
just apply occam's razor i don't

168
00:06:23,909 --> 00:06:22,160
understand why we'd ever think there

169
00:06:25,510 --> 00:06:23,919
could be something to ufos when the

170
00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:25,520
overwhelming number of sightings occur

171
00:06:30,230 --> 00:06:27,600
in commonwealth countries around air

172
00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:30,240
force braces where air force officers

173
00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:32,400
trained in psychological operations

174
00:06:37,270 --> 00:06:35,520
specifically try to mislead people about

175
00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:37,280
what's going on

176
00:06:41,510 --> 00:06:38,800
and i'm like

177
00:06:44,469 --> 00:06:41,520
that just doesn't connect with

178
00:06:47,749 --> 00:06:44,479
any of the reality of ufos which have

179
00:06:51,589 --> 00:06:47,759
been studied by a bunch of really really

180
00:06:53,430 --> 00:06:51,599
smart people like i'm not denying that

181
00:06:56,150 --> 00:06:53,440
you know things appear in the sky that

182
00:06:58,230 --> 00:06:56,160
we can't explain i just think that

183
00:07:01,110 --> 00:06:58,240
perhaps the

184
00:07:04,629 --> 00:07:01,120
more strict logical explanation would be

185
00:07:07,029 --> 00:07:04,639
this specific several bureaucracies

186
00:07:09,189 --> 00:07:07,039
these intelligence agencies like the air

187
00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:09,199
force intelligence that are

188
00:07:13,830 --> 00:07:11,440
specifically trying to keep people from

189
00:07:17,189 --> 00:07:13,840
knowing their military secrets

190
00:07:18,950 --> 00:07:17,199
and i think at different points the ufo

191
00:07:21,270 --> 00:07:18,960
thing has been

192
00:07:24,070 --> 00:07:21,280
for different purposes like there's no

193
00:07:25,510 --> 00:07:24,080
continuity with like the quote-unquote

194
00:07:27,430 --> 00:07:25,520
aliens

195
00:07:28,830 --> 00:07:27,440
which is sort of separate from seeing

196
00:07:30,550 --> 00:07:28,840
things in the sky

197
00:07:35,589 --> 00:07:30,560
right

198
00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:35,599
it doesn't conform to the best data we

199
00:07:38,950 --> 00:07:37,440
have and i'm going to present a little

200
00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:38,960
bit of that data right here because we

201
00:07:42,550 --> 00:07:40,240
really didn't have a chance to do it on

202
00:07:44,710 --> 00:07:42,560
the show and i was somewhat stunned by

203
00:07:46,550 --> 00:07:44,720
the whole thing anyway so let's dive

204
00:07:48,070 --> 00:07:46,560
into it first it's always a good idea

205
00:07:50,589 --> 00:07:48,080
when you're trying to wrestle something

206
00:07:53,749 --> 00:07:50,599
to the ground that is shrouded in

207
00:07:56,150 --> 00:07:53,759
parapolitical conspiratorial stuff like

208
00:07:58,869 --> 00:07:56,160
the ufo thing certainly is

209
00:08:00,950 --> 00:07:58,879
is to go cross culture cross time now we

210
00:08:03,589 --> 00:08:00,960
did that on skeptical a long time ago

211
00:08:05,830 --> 00:08:03,599
when i interviewed dr rd six color clark

212
00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:05,840
an anthropologist from montana state

213
00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:07,680
university here's a clip from that

214
00:08:11,110 --> 00:08:09,360
interview

215
00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:11,120
when i first came to montana state

216
00:08:14,710 --> 00:08:12,800
university i was the director of the

217
00:08:16,150 --> 00:08:14,720
center for bilingual multicultural

218
00:08:17,510 --> 00:08:16,160
education

219
00:08:20,150 --> 00:08:17,520
and i had gone out to one of the

220
00:08:21,430 --> 00:08:20,160
reservations in montana and the person

221
00:08:23,029 --> 00:08:21,440
who helped me

222
00:08:24,869 --> 00:08:23,039
out on site

223
00:08:27,909 --> 00:08:24,879
invited me out to dinner and after

224
00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:27,919
dinner he said to me said

225
00:08:31,589 --> 00:08:29,280
um

226
00:08:32,790 --> 00:08:31,599
do you have some time i want to show you

227
00:08:35,190 --> 00:08:32,800
something

228
00:08:36,709 --> 00:08:35,200
and i said sure and he took me up in the

229
00:08:39,670 --> 00:08:36,719
mountains above

230
00:08:40,949 --> 00:08:39,680
his village and he parked his car and he

231
00:08:43,670 --> 00:08:40,959
reached over and he got a pair of

232
00:08:46,710 --> 00:08:43,680
binoculars and he said to me come if

233
00:08:48,630 --> 00:08:46,720
we're if we're lucky they'll come

234
00:08:51,670 --> 00:08:48,640
and i said who would come and he said

235
00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:51,680
well the ancestors

236
00:08:55,350 --> 00:08:53,440
and so we sat on this boulder and we

237
00:08:57,110 --> 00:08:55,360
watched the night sky and he told me

238
00:08:59,190 --> 00:08:57,120
stories about

239
00:09:03,350 --> 00:08:59,200
things that had happened into him in his

240
00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:03,360
life of his interaction with star people

241
00:09:06,310 --> 00:09:04,480
well

242
00:09:07,829 --> 00:09:06,320
i had heard these stories when i was a

243
00:09:09,350 --> 00:09:07,839
little girl

244
00:09:11,590 --> 00:09:09,360
as well and so

245
00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:11,600
when i when i left

246
00:09:15,269 --> 00:09:13,360
the reservation that night all the way

247
00:09:16,870 --> 00:09:15,279
back to the university i was thinking

248
00:09:18,710 --> 00:09:16,880
about

249
00:09:20,389 --> 00:09:18,720
i've heard these stories he's heard

250
00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:20,399
these stories how many

251
00:09:25,030 --> 00:09:23,680
other native people have stories to tell

252
00:09:26,710 --> 00:09:25,040
so if you listen to the interview and

253
00:09:30,230 --> 00:09:26,720
more importantly if you read her books

254
00:09:32,310 --> 00:09:30,240
you'll find that thousands and thousands

255
00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:32,320
of native people had stories to tell

256
00:09:38,230 --> 00:09:34,000
about the star people

257
00:09:40,389 --> 00:09:38,240
lore 48 alaska hawaii guatemala mexico

258
00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:40,399
honduras stories passed down through

259
00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:42,160
generations as well as modern

260
00:09:46,550 --> 00:09:45,200
contemporary stories of sightings and of

261
00:09:50,150 --> 00:09:46,560
contact

262
00:09:52,710 --> 00:09:50,160
so cross culture cross time the ufo et

263
00:09:55,030 --> 00:09:52,720
thing holds up really well

264
00:09:57,509 --> 00:09:55,040
now the second way to tackle something

265
00:09:59,590 --> 00:09:57,519
like this is to look for the best

266
00:10:02,550 --> 00:09:59,600
evidence the repeatable evidence the

267
00:10:05,269 --> 00:10:02,560
most reliable evidence that cuts through

268
00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:05,279
all the clutter and not to digress but i

269
00:10:08,710 --> 00:10:07,040
think there's kind of a parallel here

270
00:10:09,829 --> 00:10:08,720
with the dear death experience stuff i

271
00:10:10,790 --> 00:10:09,839
mean if you want to know about that

272
00:10:12,949 --> 00:10:10,800
stuff

273
00:10:14,389 --> 00:10:12,959
go to the studies done in hospitals in

274
00:10:16,069 --> 00:10:14,399
the cardiac arrest ward where they

275
00:10:18,389 --> 00:10:16,079
interview the people right there after

276
00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:18,399
they've had a near-death experience

277
00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:21,120
reliable repeatable accounts

278
00:10:25,590 --> 00:10:22,800
by people we trust

279
00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:25,600
what's the peril with ufos for me it's

280
00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:28,240
the ufos and nukes thing and the guy

281
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:29,920
who's done more work on this than

282
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,399
anybody else like 30 years

283
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:34,480
hundreds and hundreds of interviews with

284
00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:37,360
very highly trusted people of course i'm

285
00:10:41,910 --> 00:10:39,120
talking about the work of robert

286
00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:41,920
hastings who i recently had an email

287
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:44,560
interview with but rather that include

288
00:10:48,790 --> 00:10:46,399
some of the very brief snippets that we

289
00:10:52,470 --> 00:10:48,800
had there i want to play for you a clip

290
00:10:53,829 --> 00:10:52,480
from his appearance on cnn several years

291
00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:53,839
back

292
00:10:57,269 --> 00:10:55,760
cnn's american morning what's your

293
00:10:58,470 --> 00:10:57,279
theory behind what's going on here with

294
00:11:00,710 --> 00:10:58,480
these sightings

295
00:11:02,550 --> 00:11:00,720
documents released via the freedom of

296
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:02,560
information act confirmed that these

297
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:04,480
types of incidents have occurred going

298
00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:06,399
back to 1948

299
00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:08,560
the documents describe saucer-shaped

300
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:11,040
objects whose capabilities are vastly

301
00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:12,720
beyond anything that we have the

302
00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:14,640
russians have i think the logical

303
00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:16,079
explanation is we're dealing with

304
00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:18,640
visitors from somewhere else regardless

305
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,040
there are a number of cases now i've

306
00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:23,519
interviewed over 120 former or retired

307
00:11:27,750 --> 00:11:25,600
air force personnel who've talked about

308
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:27,760
ufo incursions at missile sites at

309
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:29,839
nuclear weapons storage areas the

310
00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:31,519
incident at malmstrom air force base

311
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,399
montana in 1967 did involve

312
00:11:39,190 --> 00:11:36,480
the appearance of a saucer-shaped object

313
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:39,200
above a new nuclear missile launch site

314
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:41,200
seconds later all 10 of these missiles

315
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:44,160
controlled by this site malfunction and

316
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:46,000
the two officers involved including

317
00:11:50,389 --> 00:11:48,000
former captain bob salas who was at the

318
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,399
press conference on monday by the way

319
00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:52,880
testified that he was sworn to secrecy

320
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:55,200
and told never to discuss this he kept

321
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:57,760
his silence until 1996. all the

322
00:12:01,509 --> 00:11:59,200
gentlemen who appeared with me at the

323
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:01,519
press club believe that the american

324
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:03,360
people have a right to know the facts

325
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:06,240
but they didn't necessarily believe that

326
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,680
theory about

327
00:12:11,670 --> 00:12:09,360
why those 10 nuclear sites were

328
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,680
deactivated why do you believe

329
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:13,600
why do you believe so strongly that that

330
00:12:19,190 --> 00:12:16,480
was truly happening and that it was the

331
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:19,200
result of ufos as opposed to let's just

332
00:12:23,829 --> 00:12:22,399
say a malfunction or a military exercise

333
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:23,839
well what you've just said is not

334
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:25,760
entirely correct they all agree that

335
00:12:29,350 --> 00:12:27,600
there was no technical explanation for

336
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:29,360
what occurred in fact the engineering

337
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:31,440
reports from boeing corporation stated

338
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,560
just that

339
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:34,480
in fact all seven of the persons who

340
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,079
appeared with me believe that we are

341
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:38,480
dealing with extraterrestrials some of

342
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:40,720
them stated it explicitly at the press

343
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:43,040
conference what they do not necessarily

344
00:12:47,430 --> 00:12:45,040
agree with three of the three of the

345
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:47,440
eight three of the seven agreed with me

346
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,160
that these probably represent these

347
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:53,279
actions represent a signal being sent

348
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:55,200
i'm of the opinion that whoever aboard

349
00:12:58,949 --> 00:12:56,959
these craft are telling us and the

350
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:58,959
russians because these things have taken

351
00:13:03,430 --> 00:13:01,600
place in the former soviet union that

352
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:03,440
humans are playing with fire by

353
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:04,959
possessing and threatening to use

354
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,279
nuclear weapons that is speculative on

355
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:09,760
my part i've always made that clear but

356
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,440
the persons who were at the sites who

357
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:12,959
witnessed the craft

358
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:15,200
say that there was no technology on

359
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:16,639
earth that could account for what they

360
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:17,920
witnessed

361
00:13:23,910 --> 00:13:20,959
so the ufo et thing should be clear the

362
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:23,920
evidence is very substantial and those

363
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:26,959
who can't accept it are revealing

364
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:29,600
something about their values

365
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:32,240
or maybe to be more exact what it would

366
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:35,839
feel like for them if they had to accept

367
00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:37,040
the data

368
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:39,360
and face the paradigm shift that it

369
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:41,120
brings

370
00:13:46,150 --> 00:13:43,360
now of course that's just one person's

371
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:46,160
opinion and my opinion is clearly biased

372
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,560
by my values and my beliefs

373
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:50,959
but then that's the process we're all

374
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:52,480
going through

375
00:13:58,150 --> 00:13:54,639
and that's why i really appreciate jimmy

376
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:58,160
falun gong for engaging in this dialogue

377
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,440
in this way

378
00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:01,680
and i hope the dialogue

379
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:03,279
continues

380
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:05,440
here's part two of my interview with

381
00:14:09,829 --> 00:14:08,160
jimmy fallon gong

382
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:09,839
i like you

383
00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:12,240
prefer history that has a little bit of

384
00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:15,360
a age to it a little bit of crust to it

385
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,519
because it does settle down and it gives

386
00:14:21,269 --> 00:14:18,959
us some distance from it also

387
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:21,279
emotionally it's kind of hard to even

388
00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:23,519
process that at the same time the

389
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:26,079
problem with that is as it moves further

390
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:27,920
and further into the

391
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:29,600
sunset it's

392
00:14:34,790 --> 00:14:31,839
more prone to being

393
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:34,800
rewritten and uh irrecoverably rewritten

394
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:37,040
in a way that we can't get back to it no

395
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:39,440
one talks about 911 anymore it's like

396
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,959
it's gone

397
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:42,720
it's like no one talks about building

398
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:45,360
seven what the heck happened with

399
00:14:49,590 --> 00:14:47,519
building seven but you know one of the

400
00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:49,600
points that that i thought would be

401
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:50,880
interesting

402
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:52,720
to kind of talk about and i don't even

403
00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:53,760
know that

404
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:55,839
i might even divide this

405
00:15:00,310 --> 00:14:58,480
interview into two sections because

406
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:00,320
there are two shows

407
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:02,160
and i also you know kind of suggest we

408
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:05,440
could even do a a swab cast because

409
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,279
i do one-off interviews with people that

410
00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:09,279
i don't intend to do one-off interviews

411
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,360
with but like the subliminal jihad guys

412
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,959
they don't like me anymore because i

413
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:14,880
said caleb you're you're a muslim how

414
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,600
can you defend that i had oppermann on

415
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:19,680
up ed really

416
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:23,120
big tent revival christianity right this

417
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:26,320
is not normal ed no that's not a norm

418
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:27,920
you know so

419
00:15:34,389 --> 00:15:31,279
it's like but i i'm surprised when

420
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:34,399
people are not able to

421
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,959
kind of get over that it just becomes a

422
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:38,720
kind of barrier

423
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:40,720
steven snyder recluse

424
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:42,160
i really like him i respect him he's

425
00:15:45,990 --> 00:15:43,680
been on the show a couple times i've

426
00:15:47,749 --> 00:15:46,000
been on his show once but i can tell

427
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:47,759
it's this kind of

428
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:51,360
tinfoil left barrier that

429
00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:53,600
i just sometimes feel like i can't get

430
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:56,720
past so if we were gonna divide this

431
00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:00,000
into two shows i think the second show

432
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:02,720
that i would start with is

433
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,440
what's going on with the tinfoil left i

434
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,680
mean what is th what is that you

435
00:16:12,790 --> 00:16:09,600
introduced me to the term

436
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:12,800
who is it what is it and let's dissect

437
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:14,480
that a little bit because i think it's

438
00:16:19,749 --> 00:16:17,600
fascinating to me because i it's not

439
00:16:21,749 --> 00:16:19,759
where i sit in terms of

440
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:21,759
i'm not interested in left or right i

441
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,759
don't know who is interested in left or

442
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:25,839
right it all seems like such a farce at

443
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:29,279
this point but please start with

444
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:31,279
tinfoil left

445
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:33,600
whether or not you identify with it and

446
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:35,440
what it is

447
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,800
yeah no and i will say as a disclaimer

448
00:16:41,829 --> 00:16:40,000
like i

449
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,839
think that i might have come up with the

450
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,160
term i'm sure someone has put those two

451
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:46,880
words together before

452
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:49,120
and i

453
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:52,399
found myself trying to figure out a easy

454
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:54,079
term because

455
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:56,480
on the part of twitter that i'm

456
00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:57,759
frequently on

457
00:17:02,790 --> 00:17:00,800
there was a there still is a very large

458
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:02,800
and prominent click called the dirt bag

459
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:06,400
left which you know incorporates it's

460
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:08,880
several other major podcasts that you

461
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:12,240
know i'm not really involved with but

462
00:17:18,390 --> 00:17:14,959
essentially the tin foil left is

463
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:18,400
it's almost like a niche of a niche of a

464
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:21,839
niche because the left in america itself

465
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,079
is kind of a subculture kind of a

466
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:26,559
marginal one in some ways

467
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:28,000
and then

468
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,280
on top of that there's sort of like

469
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:34,400
outside of most political parties

470
00:17:38,950 --> 00:17:37,039
and even outside of

471
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,960
radical left political parties which are

472
00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:41,120
already sort of in shambles in the us

473
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:44,960
there is a sliver of people who

474
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:48,240
i guess you could say our enthusiasts of

475
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:50,320
radical politics who

476
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:52,799
are also enthusiasts of conspiracy

477
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:56,160
theory and sort of blends the two

478
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:56,960
and

479
00:18:01,110 --> 00:18:00,080
i would consider myself sort of doing

480
00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:01,120
that

481
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:04,480
also the subliminal jihad podcast i

482
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,520
i'm

483
00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:07,760
mind games is another like i would be

484
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,679
remiss like i don't

485
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,520
there's there's probably a bunch i'm

486
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:13,200
forgetting but like

487
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:14,799
it's essentially a click of people who

488
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:15,840
are

489
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:18,400
going like hand in hand like conspiracy

490
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,440
theories

491
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:21,360
trying to meld it onto a leftist

492
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:24,080
analysis that tries to be grounded in

493
00:18:29,909 --> 00:18:26,480
material reality

494
00:18:32,549 --> 00:18:29,919
but not necessarily denying certain

495
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:32,559
spiritual things happening as well it's

496
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,760
a very weird almost anarchic

497
00:18:40,310 --> 00:18:38,160
space and it's like

498
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:40,320
truly not that large so i'm not trying

499
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:42,480
to make it sound more important than it

500
00:18:45,990 --> 00:18:44,080
is but

501
00:18:48,310 --> 00:18:46,000
i think it is important i can't believe

502
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:48,320
you coined that phrase because

503
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:50,880
i've run into it again and again and it

504
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:53,120
kind of catches me by surprise i think

505
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:55,760
he can throw opperman in that category i

506
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:59,280
mean he he kind of outs himself as that

507
00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:01,360
stephen you know when i asked him those

508
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:03,280
kind of steven snyder recluse from the

509
00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:05,679
farm i asked him that kind of stuff and

510
00:19:09,909 --> 00:19:07,760
you know he says he's

511
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:09,919
kind of more apolitical or kind of right

512
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:11,440
down the middle but

513
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:13,360
i don't know he seems kind of

514
00:19:17,669 --> 00:19:15,520
more left-leaning to me

515
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:17,679
in in a way i guess where i'd start with

516
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:21,039
the tinfoil left kind of thing is

517
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:23,840
in what way do you process the reality

518
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:27,120
of a left versus right if we were to

519
00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:28,720
transition from the first interview we

520
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,400
had into the second one i guess i'd say

521
00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:34,880
isn't that the lesson that we get from

522
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:38,000
program to chill is this idea of left

523
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:39,440
right just kind of

524
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:42,400
crumbles it's just about power and

525
00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:44,400
different people trying to power

526
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:47,919
influence social engineering control

527
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:49,520
how does that even

528
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,120
matter from a left right perspective

529
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:55,679
yeah i mean i do think that in some ways

530
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:58,240
the framework can be

531
00:20:02,710 --> 00:19:59,440
unhelpful

532
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,720
on a number of levels for sure

533
00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:04,720
but at the same time

534
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,840
i don't think like i do think first and

535
00:20:11,029 --> 00:20:09,840
foremost that things are about power but

536
00:20:13,669 --> 00:20:11,039
it's like

537
00:20:15,669 --> 00:20:13,679
once you have power or like if you have

538
00:20:18,230 --> 00:20:15,679
power what do you do with it

539
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:18,240
any policy you pick arguably goes in a

540
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:20,559
left or right direction it's also just a

541
00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:23,760
framework of analysis too you know

542
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:27,360
no i don't know i don't i don't get that

543
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:28,960
to just finish that thought i just had

544
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:31,200
an interview with uh really excellent

545
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:32,799
guys written a book his name is mark

546
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:35,840
gober and he wrote a book

547
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,880
the end to upside down liberty and he

548
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:40,400
wrote the follow-on to a book that he

549
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:43,039
wrote on unconsciousness the kind of

550
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:45,760
skeptical things consciousness science

551
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:48,080
extended consciousness you know what's

552
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:49,760
going on near-death experience and all

553
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:51,600
the rest of this but i thought he did a

554
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:53,600
great shift he said look

555
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,120
isn't the

556
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,120
dimension that we want to look at this

557
00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:00,159
stuff isn't it really about liberty

558
00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:01,520
because if you look at people who are

559
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:03,919
traditionally on the right they go oh

560
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:06,159
you're interfering with my liberty well

561
00:21:09,909 --> 00:21:08,159
if you look at people on the left

562
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:09,919
they're saying the same thing you know

563
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,240
you are somehow inhibiting the liberty

564
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:14,080
of you know

565
00:21:19,950 --> 00:21:17,600
disadvantaged groups in a very real way

566
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:19,960
you know whether it's women or

567
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:22,000
african-american age whatever group you

568
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:22,960
know

569
00:21:26,470 --> 00:21:24,960
it's the same thing liberty i'd add

570
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,480
another you know when when i hear you

571
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:28,159
talk about class

572
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:30,960
i'm just i'm just like thrown back like

573
00:21:36,950 --> 00:21:34,080
what the heck does he even mean by class

574
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:36,960
i think about myself you know what class

575
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:40,080
am i in my identification in terms of

576
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:43,360
class is my grandfather who came over

577
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:45,520
from greece when he's 14 years old with

578
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:47,919
the five dollar bill sewn into his

579
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,520
jacket that's all he had i i i'm i'm

580
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:53,520
wealthy now but that's just two

581
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:56,640
generations i i don't think of myself as

582
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:59,120
that so it and it's like

583
00:22:02,950 --> 00:22:00,960
isn't the dimension that we're really

584
00:22:04,630 --> 00:22:02,960
talking about the way what i think it is

585
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:04,640
when i think of class

586
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:06,960
it's class mobility

587
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:09,440
so people on the right who are really

588
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:11,280
where i identified on the right who have

589
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:12,400
half a brain

590
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,320
say hey it's about class mobility it's

591
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,480
about the ability of people to move up

592
00:22:21,110 --> 00:22:18,880
and then there's elitists or some people

593
00:22:23,110 --> 00:22:21,120
call them oligarchs and

594
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:23,120
they definitely don't want that they

595
00:22:26,789 --> 00:22:24,799
want to limit the mobility of the

596
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:26,799
classes well i think it's the same thing

597
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:29,520
on the left i mean traditional leftish

598
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:32,320
politics were like labor unions

599
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:35,039
labor unions were really in their best

600
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:38,480
sense about class mobility about let's

601
00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:41,120
get you a living wage so that you can

602
00:22:45,430 --> 00:22:43,039
move up in the world not so that you can

603
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:45,440
work forever at the ford motor factory

604
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,720
but you know

605
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:48,480
eventually you'll get enough money and

606
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:51,760
you can do whatever you want to do class

607
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:54,480
mobility so i don't understand

608
00:22:59,190 --> 00:22:57,120
the left right it seems like such an op

609
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:59,200
yeah no i mean i think that there's sort

610
00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:01,280
of like this idea that

611
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:02,960
i mean

612
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:05,600
not everyone can be like a business

613
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:07,760
owner not everyone can be the boss like

614
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:10,799
not everyone can move up and so

615
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,720
what what do you mean take something you

616
00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:14,720
take well like

617
00:23:18,470 --> 00:23:16,240
you take something like labor unions

618
00:23:21,510 --> 00:23:18,480
like we were talking about and they

619
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:21,520
basically were trying to yeah get a as

620
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,360
large a group of people as possible to

621
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,919
have a good standard of living and then

622
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:27,200
you said

623
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:29,840
that that way they could move up but

624
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:30,720
like

625
00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:35,200
everyone who worked to be comfortable

626
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:37,919
and to receive a fair slice of the pie

627
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:39,520
because they are those are the people

628
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:41,679
actually working not the shareholders

629
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:42,720
not the

630
00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:46,240
most of the bosses right no like

631
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:48,159
no that's not that's not that's not

632
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:51,360
right i mean the whole principle of the

633
00:23:56,549 --> 00:23:53,360
united states and what it's built on and

634
00:23:59,510 --> 00:23:56,559
what really drives it is meritocracy is

635
00:24:02,310 --> 00:23:59,520
that people who deserve it never that's

636
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:02,320
never actually been true though exactly

637
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,559
so but that is that is the goal it's

638
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:07,120
like you know the constitution is life

639
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:08,799
liberty in the pursuit of happiness and

640
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,400
then we enslave all these people for a

641
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:12,400
hundred years and then when they're when

642
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:15,120
they're not enslaved they get a reprieve

643
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:18,320
for about a year and then and then a

644
00:24:21,909 --> 00:24:20,640
bunch of people go in and just enslave

645
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:21,919
them again in a different way and the

646
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:23,520
people in the north say ah to hell with

647
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:26,000
it we're enough we've had enough of that

648
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:27,919
slavery mavery stuff you know let it go

649
00:24:33,669 --> 00:24:30,640
back but still if we don't have the

650
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:33,679
ideal that we were shooting for

651
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,360
we wouldn't have a chance i mean we

652
00:24:39,269 --> 00:24:36,799
would just be

653
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,279
mired in just this kind of

654
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:41,520
you know it's like the quote

655
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,320
people shouldn't fear their government

656
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:46,480
governments should fear their people

657
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,960
well that is what capitalism about is

658
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:51,360
about that's what democracy is about but

659
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:52,799
it's not about

660
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,120
you know everyone just goes and punches

661
00:24:59,510 --> 00:24:57,840
their time card at ford motor company

662
00:25:02,630 --> 00:24:59,520
and just takes your salary it's about

663
00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:02,640
the best moving forward it's meritocracy

664
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:05,840
it's what your your show will succeed or

665
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:08,159
fail based on how good it is no one

666
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:09,919
needs to force people to listen to

667
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:12,799
program to chill

668
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:15,200
yeah i mean and i think that i would

669
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,400
probably

670
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:18,480
just emphasize in terms of the left

671
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:20,480
right thing like

672
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:23,760
yes liberty is a huge focus but liberty

673
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:26,240
for who like what rights

674
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:27,120
do

675
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:29,760
if someone's free to make a million

676
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:32,240
dollars but they literally can't

677
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:34,240
what what does that matter if they're

678
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,120
starving you know like

679
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:40,000
so at the end of the day it's like

680
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:41,919
are we trying to get everyone to have

681
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:44,320
enough to eat are we trying to make it

682
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:46,559
so that there can be a few

683
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:48,480
mine owners who are millionaires and

684
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:50,400
everyone else is stuck in the coal mine

685
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:52,640
you know that's where labor unions come

686
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:53,919
in so

687
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:56,080
that's gonna be a difficult topic to

688
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,480
kind of really parse out we will kind of

689
00:26:00,870 --> 00:26:00,159
switch off of that slightly what else

690
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:00,880
are you

691
00:26:08,310 --> 00:26:05,600
well basically i just a lot of the

692
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:08,320
history that i'm excavating is basically

693
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,400
from a perspective of like

694
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:12,799
the left being sold out by different

695
00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:13,840
forces

696
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:16,960
and by the left i often mean like labor

697
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:18,480
unions like

698
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:21,120
popular democracy like

699
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:23,840
there's a lot of stories of basically

700
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,440
these bureaucracies army big business

701
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,520
intelligence agencies trying to steal

702
00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:31,279
the power away from

703
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:35,360
popular democracy parliament congress

704
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:37,520
you know trying to undermine labor

705
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:38,880
unions

706
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,840
different political parties so

707
00:26:45,669 --> 00:26:43,679
i would just say it's not that i

708
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:45,679
necessarily try to get hung up on left

709
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:48,000
versus right but i do think that there

710
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,799
is that undermining of democracy that

711
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:52,400
happens that

712
00:26:56,549 --> 00:26:54,799
is basically a constant through modern

713
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:56,559
history

714
00:27:02,310 --> 00:26:59,360
okay so i tell you what let's shift

715
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:02,320
the focus a little bit but in a way i

716
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:04,559
think it's related and that is this kind

717
00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:07,039
of world view collide

718
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:08,480
kind of thing

719
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:10,240
that i think is so fascinating because i

720
00:27:14,789 --> 00:27:11,840
think that's partly what's going on with

721
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:14,799
the tinfoil left versus the tinfoil hat

722
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:17,200
kind of truther community you know and

723
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:19,760
the tinfoil left which is again

724
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:21,440
fantastic term for you to coin i think

725
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:22,720
it's i think it's going to work i think

726
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:24,559
it's going to have tremendous legs

727
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:25,840
because everyone knows immediately what

728
00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:27,679
you're talking about but

729
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:30,320
this has popped up several times and

730
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:32,799
then i heard it from you as well and

731
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:35,520
it's almost like a repeat of the quote

732
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:37,120
it reminds me of the flat earth stuff

733
00:27:40,070 --> 00:27:38,320
that's like

734
00:27:42,029 --> 00:27:40,080
wait a minute that's just completely

735
00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:42,039
insane why are people

736
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:44,799
regurgitating that over and over again

737
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:45,520
and

738
00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:47,279
the way you said it is

739
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:49,440
this is regarding ufos

740
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:50,640
you said

741
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,320
just apply occam's razor i don't

742
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,240
understand why we'd ever think there

743
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:56,000
could be something to ufos when the

744
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,600
overwhelming number of sightings occur

745
00:28:02,310 --> 00:27:59,679
in commonwealth countries around air

746
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:02,320
force braces where air force officers

747
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:04,559
trained in psychological operations

748
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,840
specifically try to mislead people about

749
00:28:11,029 --> 00:28:09,520
what's going on

750
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,039
and i'm like

751
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:13,840
that just doesn't connect with

752
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:16,799
any of the reality of ufos which have

753
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:20,399
been studied by a bunch of really really

754
00:28:25,590 --> 00:28:22,960
smart people do you want to speak to

755
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:25,600
that for a second before i kind of yeah

756
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:28,720
well i think that it's not like i'm not

757
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:31,200
denying that you know things appear in

758
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:33,919
the sky that we can't explain

759
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:38,159
you know i just think that perhaps the

760
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:41,120
more strict logical explanation would be

761
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:44,559
this specific several bureaucracies

762
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:46,960
these intelligence agencies like the air

763
00:28:51,430 --> 00:28:49,120
force intelligence that are

764
00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:51,440
specifically trying to keep people from

765
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:53,760
knowing their military secrets

766
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:57,120
and i think at different points the ufo

767
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:58,880
thing has been

768
00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:01,520
for different purposes like early on in

769
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:03,200
the cold war

770
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:04,320
i think they were probably trying to

771
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:06,559
flush out soviet spies

772
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:08,799
i think at other points

773
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:09,760
it's

774
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:12,640
performed some very interesting things

775
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:15,279
in culture you know in the 60s and 70s

776
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:17,360
and 80s and 90s i think that there were

777
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,840
different iterations of it and people

778
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:21,440
have talked about how

779
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:23,200
you know there were a lot of grays in

780
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:24,960
this certain period

781
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:27,200
there was like a weird bubble of seeing

782
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:30,240
pleiadians over in this period of time

783
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:31,520
you know like

784
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:34,240
the first ufos were all talking about oh

785
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,159
we shouldn't do atomic testing and now

786
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:38,559
they're talking about like

787
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,039
you know they're doing probing and

788
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:43,679
so it's there's no continuity with like

789
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:46,320
the quote-unquote aliens

790
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:48,159
which is sort of separate from seeing

791
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:50,240
things in the sky right

792
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:51,440
yeah but

793
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:54,080
what i read the overwhelming number of

794
00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:55,440
sightings occur in commonwealth

795
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:57,679
countries around air force bases i was

796
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:58,880
really surprised to hear that because it

797
00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:01,440
just isn't it isn't at all accurate it

798
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:03,840
doesn't conform to the real data in the

799
00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:05,600
same way that like so you dig in you do

800
00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:08,880
these fantastic in-depth looks at nazi

801
00:30:11,190 --> 00:30:10,240
germany it'd be like somebody coming

802
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:11,200
along and

803
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:13,679
you talking to them about uh goring and

804
00:30:19,029 --> 00:30:16,559
borman and hess and they're like

805
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:19,039
who are who are those people and you'd

806
00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:20,000
go like

807
00:30:24,230 --> 00:30:21,919
wow this guy doesn't really know

808
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:24,240
anything other than adolf hitler and i'm

809
00:30:27,029 --> 00:30:25,679
not trying to be mean i'm just trying to

810
00:30:31,190 --> 00:30:27,039
say

811
00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:31,200
know who terry lovelace is do you know

812
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:33,200
travis walton is do you know who betty

813
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:34,880
and barney hill are do you know who

814
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,080
chris bledsoe uh is i mean yes

815
00:30:43,909 --> 00:30:40,480
the hills were almost transparently

816
00:30:45,269 --> 00:30:43,919
abducted by like intelligence no

817
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:45,279
not at all

818
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:46,960
have you listened to interviews with

819
00:30:50,549 --> 00:30:48,840
betty and barney hill's

820
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:50,559
relatives

821
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,159
number one there's a history of

822
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:54,960
abduction in that family

823
00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:57,440
betty hill i forget her maiden name her

824
00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:00,000
mother says that she had contact

825
00:31:04,789 --> 00:31:02,559
and so it's the same story you hear over

826
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,799
and over again but even if you go like

827
00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:06,720
the most reliable way you'd want to look

828
00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:09,279
at this is cross culture across time

829
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:11,679
right so have you ever heard of artie

830
00:31:17,190 --> 00:31:14,320
six killer clark probably not

831
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,200
montana state university uh native

832
00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:19,360
american person not that that matters

833
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:21,760
except that she by virtue of that was

834
00:31:26,630 --> 00:31:24,720
able to gain access to a bunch of native

835
00:31:28,549 --> 00:31:26,640
american communities that other people

836
00:31:30,630 --> 00:31:28,559
maybe couldn't so she goes in and she

837
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:30,640
goes so tell me and they all just tell

838
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:32,960
her up and down you know the star people

839
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,840
and the craft and the ufos and she talks

840
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:37,600
to very old people she talks to younger

841
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:39,039
people she talks about stories that have

842
00:31:42,789 --> 00:31:40,880
been passed around and it's unbelievable

843
00:31:44,789 --> 00:31:42,799
she publishes this book you've never

844
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,799
heard of it because it doesn't fit into

845
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:46,399
that paradigm then she goes and she

846
00:31:48,870 --> 00:31:47,600
writes another book and she goes down

847
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,880
central america she goes to south

848
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:50,480
america it's like

849
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:53,200
when you say the vast majority of these

850
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:55,440
cases are in commonwealth overwhelming

851
00:31:59,430 --> 00:31:57,440
you say overwhelming number of sightings

852
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,440
occur in commonwealth countries that's

853
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:01,919
just completely not true go to

854
00:32:08,789 --> 00:32:05,120
go to youtube like the mexico sightings

855
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:08,799
all over mexico brazil all over brazil

856
00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:11,760
all over the world but across cultures

857
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:14,080
across time these things have been

858
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:17,120
reported but there are u.s military

859
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:20,159
bases in all of those countries

860
00:32:23,669 --> 00:32:22,000
i i just can't i mean to me that's

861
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:23,679
something there's not a cons yeah but

862
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:26,240
there's not a consistent number of ufo

863
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,279
sightings it certainly spikes after the

864
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:31,039
invention of

865
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,240
airplanes

866
00:32:37,509 --> 00:32:34,320
is it would you agree with that it

867
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:37,519
spikes after the invention of phones too

868
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:40,399
with uh with cameras on them so i i just

869
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:41,679
think it's

870
00:32:48,470 --> 00:32:42,480
you're

871
00:32:51,669 --> 00:32:48,480
opposite of what you do on on applying

872
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:51,679
it to the the history like of germany

873
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:52,640
like

874
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:56,480
to me the pull out point from the part

875
00:33:01,669 --> 00:32:59,360
we talked about in part one is that we

876
00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:01,679
now have to understand

877
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:03,679
the formation of the nazi party

878
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:06,640
differently because of its connection to

879
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:08,080
intelligence

880
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:13,600
shouldn't fall for the kind of

881
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:16,880
standard lone nut assassin oh my gosh

882
00:33:22,149 --> 00:33:20,559
you know well to me it's the same thing

883
00:33:24,710 --> 00:33:22,159
here it's like

884
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:24,720
the real stories we have all directly

885
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:26,480
contradict what you're saying do you

886
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:28,960
know who paul benowitz is

887
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:30,000
yes

888
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:32,640
okay so paul benowitz so what do you

889
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:34,640
know about that story

890
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:37,440
yeah i mean i read mirage man so

891
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:40,240
so he he's just an ordinary guy he's a

892
00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:41,600
small business owner owns like an

893
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:43,200
electrical contracting company or

894
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:44,480
something like that

895
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,600
and he sees these lights in the base

896
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:49,919
across from them you know it's way out

897
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:52,640
in the distance but he reports it and

898
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:55,760
then he becomes a victim and the fact

899
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:57,840
that they even came out and acknowledged

900
00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:58,799
this is

901
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:01,200
scary that they would but this

902
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:02,720
attempt to

903
00:34:07,509 --> 00:34:05,519
discredit him by doing kind of an mk

904
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:07,519
ultra mine control i mean they would

905
00:34:12,550 --> 00:34:09,599
show up and the air force was pretending

906
00:34:13,990 --> 00:34:12,560
like they were interested only to go in

907
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:14,000
his house and rearrange his furniture

908
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:16,079
when he wasn't looking so that he'd go

909
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,520
oh paul what do you mean nothing

910
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:19,520
happened they're trying to drive him

911
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:22,320
crazy in order to discredit his

912
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:25,359
testimony that wouldn't fit in with what

913
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:27,040
you're saying at all and we see this

914
00:34:31,109 --> 00:34:28,800
repeated over and over again if you go

915
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:31,119
look at what where did he where did what

916
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:33,119
like where did he see the thing that he

917
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:34,639
saw

918
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,560
yes he yeah but that

919
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:38,960
begs the question so he saw it on an air

920
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:43,280
force base so to suggest then this is an

921
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:45,599
earth-based technology

922
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:47,440
and that we kind of

923
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:50,320
spun it out of you know our really bravo

924
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:51,679
our planes and

925
00:34:56,550 --> 00:34:54,320
it doesn't fit with the data we have

926
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:56,560
right i mean we can kind of trace the

927
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:59,280
technology of flight back pretty far

928
00:35:04,069 --> 00:35:01,680
and that at the point at which ufos

929
00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:04,079
intersect with that is not at a point

930
00:35:10,230 --> 00:35:06,800
when we had the technological capability

931
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:10,240
to do some of this stuff it just doesn't

932
00:35:14,950 --> 00:35:12,320
it just doesn't fit

933
00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:14,960
yeah but i mean with the benowitz case

934
00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:15,760
like

935
00:35:19,349 --> 00:35:17,440
all i hear is

936
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:19,359
he saw something at a base and then

937
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:21,440
military intelligence started to [\h__\h]

938
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:23,680
with him and

939
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:25,839
like i'm not necessarily denying that

940
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:28,240
there could be something with ufos in

941
00:35:34,710 --> 00:35:30,720
addition to that i'm just saying that

942
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:34,720
a lot of the ufo phenomenon is explained

943
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,440
by

944
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:37,599
these agencies that exist specifically

945
00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:40,240
to push out disinformation i don't mean

946
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:42,320
to say that there's nothing else going

947
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:43,119
on

948
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:45,119
yeah but you know back to your occam's

949
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:47,280
razor thing the occam's razor cuts

950
00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:48,400
really

951
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:50,480
more cleanly the other way

952
00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:52,480
is that the attempt to

953
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,200
muddy the waters with misinformation is

954
00:35:59,589 --> 00:35:57,359
because they're hiding something that is

955
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:59,599
real i mean if you go back and you trace

956
00:36:01,829 --> 00:36:00,640
like

957
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:01,839
i don't know if you're familiar with the

958
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:04,160
wilbert smith memo that's released in

959
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:05,920
the 50s and he's a guy

960
00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:09,280
in canada who is at the weird desk in

961
00:36:15,030 --> 00:36:12,640
canada the highest level talking to the

962
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:15,040
prime minister about all this strange

963
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:16,880
stuff that's popping up in the skies not

964
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:18,960
all the time but reports

965
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:20,240
pilots

966
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:24,640
they're all saying at various times like

967
00:36:29,589 --> 00:36:26,880
they have throughout history we're

968
00:36:31,349 --> 00:36:29,599
seeing these things so finally the

969
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:31,359
highest level people in the canadian

970
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,280
government prime minister says hey go

971
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,280
down there and see what the yanks know

972
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:37,599
and he comes down to the u.s and he

973
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:39,760
meets with phantom our bush and he meets

974
00:36:43,750 --> 00:36:41,760
with all the other

975
00:36:45,510 --> 00:36:43,760
aviary people which whether you want to

976
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:45,520
believe it or not best evidence is that

977
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,440
it's true and he comes back and he

978
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:49,680
writes a memo and this memo is top

979
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:52,000
secret it's only revealed

980
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,240
accidentally through a foia request in

981
00:36:58,710 --> 00:36:56,320
canada and you can trace the legitimacy

982
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:58,720
of that but it certainly doesn't look

983
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:00,880
like anything that was snuck out or

984
00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:03,520
planted or intended to get out and he

985
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:06,079
says hey yeah i went down there and this

986
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:09,200
is the 1950s he says this is the highest

987
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:11,599
top secret thing that is going on in the

988
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,640
u.s

989
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:14,560
and the other thing that he says is he

990
00:37:19,349 --> 00:37:16,960
says there's a mental phenomenon aspect

991
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:19,359
to this that they're very interested in

992
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:20,720
and that would be the

993
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:22,960
telepathic part is that they're having

994
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:24,320
extended

995
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:26,960
consciousness communication with these

996
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:29,440
beings so yeah that's basically what

997
00:37:34,829 --> 00:37:32,320
kiel said is that it's not necessarily a

998
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:34,839
physical phenomenon

999
00:37:39,990 --> 00:37:38,320
well it's not necessarily but the way

1000
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:40,000
that cuts is

1001
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:42,880
what is reality anyway you know it's

1002
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:44,160
kind of uh

1003
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,400
gets into some deeper philosophical and

1004
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,960
also physics kind of things in terms of

1005
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:50,800
consciousness is consciousness

1006
00:37:55,990 --> 00:37:53,200
fundamental or is matter fundamental how

1007
00:37:58,069 --> 00:37:56,000
flexible is time how flexible is matter

1008
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,079
but if we're going to stay in this

1009
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:00,480
consensus reality where there are things

1010
00:38:04,790 --> 00:38:02,480
that are out there that we can measure

1011
00:38:07,030 --> 00:38:04,800
yes these things can't have a physical

1012
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:07,040
property yes there can be spaceships

1013
00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:10,640
from other planets and yes jacques valet

1014
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:11,440
who

1015
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:13,680
you know writes all these books about

1016
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:15,200
the connections to fairies and all the

1017
00:38:22,390 --> 00:38:19,599
rest of that also has spacecraft pieces

1018
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:22,400
in his pocket that he analyzes with the

1019
00:38:26,150 --> 00:38:23,200
most

1020
00:38:28,630 --> 00:38:26,160
technical and sophisticated microscopes

1021
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:28,640
we have and says we can't make this

1022
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:31,920
in this world so the the idea that it's

1023
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:33,839
somehow all consciousness or that there

1024
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:35,760
isn't a nuts and bolts coming is again

1025
00:38:39,349 --> 00:38:36,800
just kind of

1026
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:39,359
a punt to me of the whole thing and i

1027
00:38:45,190 --> 00:38:40,560
don't know where this whole thing got

1028
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,390
yeah no

1029
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:48,640
i definitely think that things are

1030
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:50,960
always much more complicated than they

1031
00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:52,240
seem

1032
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:55,040
so let me ask you this

1033
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:56,960
so we hashed it out there on the ufo

1034
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:00,000
thing but we didn't really hash it out

1035
00:39:05,510 --> 00:39:03,359
so what is the world view collide thing

1036
00:39:07,750 --> 00:39:05,520
on that and how does the world view

1037
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:07,760
collide thing

1038
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:10,480
really ever get resolved so taking you

1039
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:13,119
and i out of it for a minute but we just

1040
00:39:17,510 --> 00:39:16,000
went through a worldview collide kind of

1041
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:17,520
discussion

1042
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,000
how are these things supposed to

1043
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:22,240
resolve themselves

1044
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:25,520
well i mean i think that like

1045
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:27,760
you were pretty forceful on the

1046
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:30,560
existence of a unidentified flying

1047
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,320
object phenomenon i think that there is

1048
00:39:39,109 --> 00:39:36,480
also overwhelming evidence of

1049
00:39:41,750 --> 00:39:39,119
intelligence agencies

1050
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:41,760
infiltrating the ufo community

1051
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:43,040
and you can

1052
00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:46,320
make various sort of assumptions as to

1053
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:47,920
why

1054
00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:50,960
ranging from monitoring it keeping tabs

1055
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:52,880
on it all the way to

1056
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:55,359
astroturfing it completely like in

1057
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:57,680
certain times and places they seem to

1058
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:00,560
have just outright funded it so like

1059
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,560
there are probably a bunch of reasons

1060
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:04,640
why they would do that so

1061
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:07,680
how do we reconcile the fact that

1062
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:09,920
there's that phenomenon and then there's

1063
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:12,400
intelligence agencies absolutely just

1064
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:15,839
caked throughout the ufo community like

1065
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:18,560
i don't know if it's necessarily going

1066
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:20,880
to be just one answer you know

1067
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:23,280
i get you on part of that

1068
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:25,440
but the other part of it that is

1069
00:40:28,470 --> 00:40:27,520
troubling to me because it is also i

1070
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:28,480
think

1071
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:30,880
where we're at in a culture in terms of

1072
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:33,359
the larger bigger picture stuff

1073
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:36,400
so the i guess my process in that it's

1074
00:40:40,950 --> 00:40:39,440
the black swan thing and the black swan

1075
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,960
thing is that

1076
00:40:46,030 --> 00:40:43,440
if you think all swans are white

1077
00:40:47,829 --> 00:40:46,040
you only need one black swan the

1078
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:47,839
falsification

1079
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:50,480
is not as hard as you might think

1080
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:54,319
and the falsification of the idea that

1081
00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:58,319
ufos are an invention of the air force

1082
00:41:03,510 --> 00:41:00,480
or an intelligence project or something

1083
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:03,520
like that is pretty easy just when you

1084
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:05,119
like i say you just go cross culture

1085
00:41:10,950 --> 00:41:07,760
across time and there they are

1086
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:10,960
you can't jam that back into

1087
00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:13,280
ufos are a product of the united states

1088
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:15,119
military it just doesn't fit it's a

1089
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,240
black swan what do you think about that

1090
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:20,160
yeah i mean i think that that is

1091
00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:23,200
certainly a good point at the same time

1092
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,240
like

1093
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,079
you could still

1094
00:41:30,630 --> 00:41:28,319
take the set of data and say

1095
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:30,640
overwhelmingly like

1096
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:32,960
99.999

1097
00:41:38,309 --> 00:41:34,880
of swans

1098
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:38,319
or ufos or are probably

1099
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:40,000
you know

1100
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,880
some sort of either projection

1101
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:45,200
using a technology which they have

1102
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:47,440
patents for that projecting things into

1103
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:48,400
the sky

1104
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,560
or you know

1105
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:52,240
just new craft that they're

1106
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:55,119
experimenting with because there's

1107
00:41:59,349 --> 00:41:57,200
you know like

1108
00:42:02,309 --> 00:41:59,359
you can't say that there's not a huge

1109
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:02,319
core like correlation between ufos and

1110
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:05,440
u.s military bases like

1111
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:07,280
not to say that that's everything but

1112
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:08,079
like

1113
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:10,160
there's a very high correlation there

1114
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:11,440
and

1115
00:42:17,030 --> 00:42:14,319
that you know like logic would

1116
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:17,040
sort of correlate those two right and i

1117
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:17,839
think

1118
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:20,880
the shorter more logical answer would be

1119
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,440
that's probably experimental craft

1120
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:25,920
but the fundamental question is is there

1121
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:28,319
a reality to

1122
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:32,079
beings from other planets visiting

1123
00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:32,960
earth

1124
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:35,520
that's what we really want to know so if

1125
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:37,040
it's one another

1126
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:38,800
they're uh they're coming from colab of

1127
00:42:41,829 --> 00:42:40,560
course

1128
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:41,839
what's called

1129
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,400
i'm just it's it's the uh mormon planet

1130
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,480
i'm just screwing around

1131
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:49,440
well i i think it's i i think it's this

1132
00:42:52,710 --> 00:42:50,720
this is the kind of stuff that i think

1133
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:52,720
keeps popping up it's like when you get

1134
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:55,119
into the stuff that kind of gets more to

1135
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:57,200
your field and the work that you've done

1136
00:43:02,710 --> 00:42:59,760
on program to chill is when you get into

1137
00:43:04,870 --> 00:43:02,720
esotericism which is really kind of code

1138
00:43:07,109 --> 00:43:04,880
speak for occult and which is really

1139
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:07,119
kind of a code speak for satanic but

1140
00:43:11,589 --> 00:43:10,079
none of us can process that fully again

1141
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:11,599
i would suggest is because we're

1142
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:13,599
hamstrung by this

1143
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:16,720
very very cultish kind of religious kind

1144
00:43:19,510 --> 00:43:17,520
of

1145
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:19,520
i have the book and the book says

1146
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:21,440
everything we could ever want to know

1147
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:23,520
about that but when you do talk to

1148
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:26,240
academics like i talked to the guy a guy

1149
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:27,680
from ohio state university wrote a book

1150
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:30,560
on scientology and he'll tell you l ron

1151
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:32,000
hubbard and jack parsons are out in the

1152
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,480
desert and they're trying to do the the

1153
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:36,640
rights to bring forth the antichrist and

1154
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:38,720
then he'll kind of just go right on and

1155
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:40,319
talk about the rest of the scientology

1156
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:43,200
story and you want to go well

1157
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:45,200
wait you know and he said something that

1158
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:47,200
i'll hear you take say it doesn't matter

1159
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:49,839
so much whether it's real or not what

1160
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:51,839
matters is that they believed it and i'm

1161
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,720
like

1162
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:55,280
well no it's kind of the opposite it

1163
00:44:00,630 --> 00:43:57,839
matters if they believed it but

1164
00:44:03,589 --> 00:44:00,640
the most fundamental question is

1165
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:03,599
is there an extended consciousness realm

1166
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:05,119
might that exist

1167
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:08,000
and might that have an influence on

1168
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:11,280
humanity as it as we're living it in

1169
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:13,839
this space-time reality

1170
00:44:18,309 --> 00:44:15,760
that is a question that

1171
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:18,319
i would say has kind of been answered by

1172
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:20,960
science in the last 10 years in terms of

1173
00:44:24,069 --> 00:44:22,200
the work that's been done in

1174
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:24,079
parapsychology and in near-death

1175
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:26,640
experience reincarnation work at major

1176
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:27,839
universities and published in

1177
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:30,800
peer-reviewed papers it's just like

1178
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:33,520
the the word hasn't got out that yeah

1179
00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:36,000
the best bet is that yes there is a

1180
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:38,480
reality to that so let's start getting

1181
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:40,720
serious about what that means do you

1182
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:42,960
have any thoughts on that

1183
00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:44,880
yeah like

1184
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:47,440
it's been commented upon by lots of

1185
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:48,960
people that like

1186
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:51,440
rich people like aleister crowley you

1187
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,000
know take your pick like people like to

1188
00:44:57,430 --> 00:44:56,160
do magic it's almost

1189
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,440
it

1190
00:45:01,589 --> 00:44:59,520
rich people and poor people do magic and

1191
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:01,599
they mostly do different types that

1192
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:03,760
overlap right but

1193
00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:04,400
i

1194
00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:28,880
crowley you know

1195
00:45:33,829 --> 00:45:30,640
any one of these people

1196
00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:33,839
were out there just doing weird rituals

1197
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:36,079
in the desert and then they didn't

1198
00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:37,839
notice anything and then they just went

1199
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:40,319
along their way you know like

1200
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:43,760
i do think that there is something to

1201
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,720
magic i'm not necessarily

1202
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:49,200
advocating that people there for

1203
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:51,599
practice magic you know what i'm saying

1204
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:53,680
oh completely i mean

1205
00:45:58,630 --> 00:45:56,480
i would almost suggest the opposite i

1206
00:46:01,750 --> 00:45:58,640
would i'm not a christian i'm not a

1207
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:01,760
religious person but it does seem to me

1208
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:04,240
that there is a moral imperative

1209
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:06,000
there is good

1210
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,040
there is light there is darkness and

1211
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:11,040
it's kind of an as below so above kind

1212
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:13,119
of thing that's how that's how i process

1213
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:15,040
all the data that i've encountered is

1214
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:17,040
you know just look around look around

1215
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:19,040
our world our here and now world

1216
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,920
you don't have to look very far to see

1217
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:23,760
darkness in a way that we don't totally

1218
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:25,520
understand why people are drawn to that

1219
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,359
why are you doing such destructive

1220
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:29,280
things to you another how does that

1221
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:31,440
really benefit you but people do it

1222
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:36,870
yeah exactly and like

1223
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:40,160
i maybe we'll get into it but like there

1224
00:46:45,349 --> 00:46:43,839
are all types of magical practices

1225
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:45,359
and

1226
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,560
a lot of them are probably benign

1227
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:50,880
i in fact i can almost attest to that

1228
00:46:57,030 --> 00:46:54,240
but like there is a specific subset of

1229
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:57,040
people who are interested in black magic

1230
00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:00,480
and black magic specifically

1231
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:02,960
is all about contacting non-human

1232
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:05,200
entities to get them to do things for

1233
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:06,400
them and

1234
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:09,040
it's always tied up in doing

1235
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:10,400
acts of violence

1236
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,319
certain sexual acts

1237
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,240
and there's a whole framework for doing

1238
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:16,640
it in order to do these things

1239
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:17,680
and

1240
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:19,920
then it becomes very very concerning

1241
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:22,800
when you perceive certain

1242
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:25,359
powerful people doing that

1243
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,280
like i think a lot of people were a

1244
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:29,280
little clued into that with epstein and

1245
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:30,240
his

1246
00:47:36,829 --> 00:47:34,880
in the caribbean right that was

1247
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:36,839
certainly one of the starting points for

1248
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:39,200
me well one of the other starting points

1249
00:47:42,790 --> 00:47:40,880
for a lot of people was pizzagate but

1250
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,800
i'm not sure you're

1251
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:44,559
kind of too what are you thinking about

1252
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:47,119
pizzagate and uh to what extent are you

1253
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,880
viewing this through an exclusively

1254
00:47:52,950 --> 00:47:50,480
christian lens

1255
00:47:54,549 --> 00:47:52,960
i would say not exclusively christian

1256
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:54,559
like i was not

1257
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:57,359
particularly tuned into

1258
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:59,119
black magic

1259
00:48:01,990 --> 00:48:00,160
when i was

1260
00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:02,000
at my most devout

1261
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:04,240
i sort of got into this first and

1262
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:06,640
foremost through looking at

1263
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,359
intelligence agencies you know more of

1264
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:11,359
the financial stuff

1265
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:13,359
and and then i kept seeing this

1266
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:16,000
correlation between certain people being

1267
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,280
interested in magic also and i just

1268
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:21,440
don't see them being interested in

1269
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:22,880
something that is

1270
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,599
purely spiritual that has no

1271
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:27,839
tangible relation to like you know what

1272
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:30,079
i'm saying like people don't put time

1273
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:32,800
and effort into things for no payoff

1274
00:48:36,549 --> 00:48:34,720
right although it gets complicated in

1275
00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:36,559
the same way that the

1276
00:48:40,790 --> 00:48:38,720
the nazi financing gets complicated and

1277
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:40,800
we say you know the industrialist that

1278
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,200
you document in the whole series you do

1279
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:45,440
on the financing of hitler are all over

1280
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:47,280
the board they're not we can't assume

1281
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:48,880
that they're all anti-semitic and you

1282
00:48:52,470 --> 00:48:50,800
kind of point that out and we can't

1283
00:48:54,470 --> 00:48:52,480
assume that they're all

1284
00:48:56,069 --> 00:48:54,480
even pro-nazi a lot of them are just

1285
00:48:57,750 --> 00:48:56,079
being strategic and they're placing

1286
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:57,760
their bets all over the place and i

1287
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:00,400
think the same thing is going on

1288
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:03,040
here right i mean you

1289
00:49:09,030 --> 00:49:04,880
you there's a certain go along to get

1290
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:09,040
along aspect to politics certainly so

1291
00:49:13,589 --> 00:49:12,000
how are you processing the pizzagate

1292
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,599
thing because again it the worldview

1293
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:15,680
collide the other thing i get from the

1294
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:17,520
tin foil left when i talk about

1295
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:20,640
pizzagate and they go oh yeah pizzagate

1296
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:22,319
that's where a guy goes in and shoots up

1297
00:49:27,270 --> 00:49:24,640
a pizza restaurant and i'm like

1298
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:27,280
well no it's it's where they

1299
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:28,640
tried to

1300
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:31,200
submarine hillary clinton by releasing

1301
00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:33,920
all these emails that showed

1302
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:36,559
her strange connection to

1303
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:38,880
occult practices that

1304
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:41,440
because so much the population is

1305
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:44,240
completely mesmerized by this christian

1306
00:49:49,430 --> 00:49:47,920
motif any hint of occult practices

1307
00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:49,440
connected with these people is going to

1308
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:51,920
seriously damage her politically

1309
00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:54,319
that to me seems like clearly the intent

1310
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:56,480
of the emails and there was enough

1311
00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,880
substance to the emails that it just

1312
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:01,760
generated this huge storm on twitter and

1313
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:03,119
on social media

1314
00:50:06,150 --> 00:50:04,160
but then

1315
00:50:08,069 --> 00:50:06,160
again it's a rewrite of history when i

1316
00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:08,079
hear these people say yeah it's about

1317
00:50:14,230 --> 00:50:10,400
this wacky right-wing guy who shot up a

1318
00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:14,240
pizza parlor no it's about the emails

1319
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:16,079
yeah no because that's the thing there

1320
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:17,599
are so many

1321
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:19,839
aspects to pizzagate because first and

1322
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:21,839
foremost that restaurant the guy who

1323
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,119
owns it

1324
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:25,680
probably well okay i won't say anything

1325
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:28,319
that could get me sued he seemed pretty

1326
00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:29,359
creepy

1327
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:31,359
um the emails

1328
00:50:36,309 --> 00:50:34,480
the timing of them was absolutely

1329
00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:36,319
designed to tank her

1330
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:38,800
for sure that was an operation

1331
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:40,720
that said

1332
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:43,520
the clintons do also seem to have their

1333
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:46,000
hands in some weird you know some of

1334
00:50:50,069 --> 00:50:46,720
that

1335
00:50:52,470 --> 00:50:50,079
marina abramovic stuff is like really

1336
00:50:55,270 --> 00:50:52,480
it's it's art but it's also they're just

1337
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:55,280
doing magic like whether or not you

1338
00:50:59,109 --> 00:50:57,440
think that's real or you know

1339
00:51:01,349 --> 00:50:59,119
whatever

1340
00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:01,359
it's really weird and it freaks out the

1341
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:04,720
electorate and just pointing it out

1342
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:06,720
is not necessarily

1343
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:10,160
bad obviously the way that it was framed

1344
00:51:13,589 --> 00:51:12,000
with pizzagate was designed to cause

1345
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:13,599
maximum damage

1346
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:15,839
but that's just how politics is right so

1347
00:51:18,870 --> 00:51:16,800
it's like

1348
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:18,880
it was an operation there was some truth

1349
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:21,440
here there was some truth there

1350
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,680
you know but it's also just designed to

1351
00:51:27,430 --> 00:51:25,200
take her down

1352
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:27,440
really interesting stuff

1353
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:31,200
we're kind of getting somewhere i think

1354
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:33,760
and i think it's really easy for people

1355
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:36,160
at this point to see the connections

1356
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:39,040
that i make with that and the work

1357
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:41,680
you've done on program to chill because

1358
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:43,200
program to chill

1359
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,079
forces us to think of everything from uh

1360
00:51:49,430 --> 00:51:48,000
parapolitical which is code speak for

1361
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:49,440
conspiracy theory because people freak

1362
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:51,200
out when you say conspiracy theory from

1363
00:51:54,309 --> 00:51:53,440
a parapolitical standpoint is like

1364
00:51:57,670 --> 00:51:54,319
huh

1365
00:52:00,150 --> 00:51:57,680
who was behind that operation and why

1366
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:00,160
was that operation run and then why was

1367
00:52:04,950 --> 00:52:02,160
history rewritten

1368
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:04,960
as right-wing conspiracy theory guy goes

1369
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,119
in and shoots up a pizza restaurant and

1370
00:52:11,349 --> 00:52:09,839
as you kind of were approaching james

1371
00:52:13,829 --> 00:52:11,359
alifantas is

1372
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:13,839
he might be a pizza owner but he's one

1373
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:14,960
of the most

1374
00:52:20,630 --> 00:52:17,599
influential

1375
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:20,640
connected at the highest level

1376
00:52:26,230 --> 00:52:24,160
kind of personages in washington dc and

1377
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:26,240
what happened when they

1378
00:52:30,470 --> 00:52:27,920
when they did the crowdsource kind of

1379
00:52:34,069 --> 00:52:30,480
investigation on him is he has this oh

1380
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:34,079
beyond creepy connections to very

1381
00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:38,240
pedophilic themed pictures art which we

1382
00:52:42,870 --> 00:52:40,400
can't even call it art it's just

1383
00:52:44,470 --> 00:52:42,880
pedophilia disguised as an extremely

1384
00:52:46,870 --> 00:52:44,480
disturbing art

1385
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:46,880
and and there's james elephant is right

1386
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,240
in the middle of that or either

1387
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,160
commenting on it or liking people or

1388
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:52,240
connected with it there's just

1389
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:54,880
it's it's undeniable what is deniable is

1390
00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:57,359
do we have any proof that he was

1391
00:53:02,230 --> 00:53:00,160
engaging in sexual no we don't have that

1392
00:53:05,510 --> 00:53:02,240
you know was he convicted no we don't

1393
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,520
have that but anyone who has the the

1394
00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:07,920
stomach which i would forgive anyone if

1395
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:09,760
they didn't looking in that comes and

1396
00:53:13,270 --> 00:53:10,480
goes

1397
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:13,280
oh my god that's it's it's incredible to

1398
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:16,000
think that that guy would have that

1399
00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:19,040
level of of influence and gravitas

1400
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:21,040
within the democratic community and

1401
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:22,319
would be

1402
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:23,839
still friends with everybody because

1403
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:25,440
that's always the thing i say is like

1404
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,200
okay you didn't know any of that stuff

1405
00:53:31,990 --> 00:53:29,359
about james alefantis and he was your

1406
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:32,000
friend now you do know it is he still

1407
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:33,200
your friend

1408
00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:35,680
for most of us you'd be like [\h__\h] no i

1409
00:53:38,790 --> 00:53:37,280
mean i'm like you know what

1410
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:38,800
so

1411
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,079
but the the op is is strange because the

1412
00:53:46,870 --> 00:53:44,400
up it's like let me shift gears for a

1413
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:46,880
minute and get your thought on this

1414
00:53:51,670 --> 00:53:49,280
january 6th

1415
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:51,680
the to me the direct parallels to

1416
00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:54,559
pizzagate january 6 the message that

1417
00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:56,319
came out of that and i wasn't even

1418
00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:58,319
following that close was but it just

1419
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:00,960
kind of rang in my head and then they

1420
00:54:07,750 --> 00:54:04,000
stormed the capitol

1421
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:07,760
and then the guy went in and shot up the

1422
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:09,520
pizza restaurant it's like

1423
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:11,599
but that isn't what that was about what

1424
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:13,359
do you think of the possibility that

1425
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:15,280
there was uh and i sent you the link

1426
00:54:20,950 --> 00:54:18,079
that there was an agent provocateur

1427
00:54:23,349 --> 00:54:20,960
among the crowd that was oh more than

1428
00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:23,359
just like one i think that there was a

1429
00:54:28,150 --> 00:54:25,440
whole host of people like

1430
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:28,160
it's been documented that there were

1431
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:30,880
people from fort bragg's army

1432
00:54:37,109 --> 00:54:33,920
psychological operations units

1433
00:54:39,990 --> 00:54:37,119
present at january 6. there was a weird

1434
00:54:41,109 --> 00:54:40,000
lack of capital police they seem to

1435
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:41,119
receive

1436
00:54:47,109 --> 00:54:43,359
atypical instructions on how to handle

1437
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:47,119
it they seem to sort of you know there's

1438
00:54:51,270 --> 00:54:49,119
a thing like there are other groups in

1439
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:51,280
the mix and i know that steven snyder

1440
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:53,440
you know recluse has done a

1441
00:54:58,789 --> 00:54:55,920
he's he had at least one show that

1442
00:55:01,510 --> 00:54:58,799
arguably almost laid it all out as far

1443
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:01,520
as can be known currently but it's just

1444
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:02,880
like

1445
00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:05,040
yeah they were definitely provoking them

1446
00:55:11,030 --> 00:55:08,240
to into doing that and then i think a

1447
00:55:13,030 --> 00:55:11,040
lot of the people who got arrested

1448
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:13,040
some but not all

1449
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:16,480
were i i wouldn't say innocent but like

1450
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:18,880
i'm not in because i'm not in a position

1451
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:21,760
as a judge in the first place but like

1452
00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:23,520
a lot of times the people who actually

1453
00:55:28,150 --> 00:55:26,000
get charges for things like this are not

1454
00:55:31,829 --> 00:55:28,160
the people who

1455
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:31,839
instigated or caused it i'll say that

1456
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:35,920
so let's connect it back how are we to

1457
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:38,400
understand this history when it's being

1458
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,839
rewritten

1459
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,079
right in front of our eyes

1460
00:55:47,589 --> 00:55:44,400
i run across people all the time who are

1461
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:47,599
trump supporters and i'm like

1462
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:49,520
clearly at this point it's an op right i

1463
00:55:54,390 --> 00:55:52,319
mean trump is a brand he's not a

1464
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:54,400
he he's a brand in the same way i mean

1465
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:57,440
biden is clearly not no one thinks biden

1466
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:58,559
is

1467
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:01,119
a leader or a political figure there's

1468
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:02,960
something going on here that we're

1469
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:05,359
completely not aware of we're hidden

1470
00:56:07,109 --> 00:56:06,160
from

1471
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:07,119
but

1472
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:10,559
whatever we're we're we even take a step

1473
00:56:14,230 --> 00:56:12,640
into it we're forced into this other

1474
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:14,240
paradigm whether it's the left right

1475
00:56:18,390 --> 00:56:16,559
paradigm or whether it's the

1476
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:18,400
whatever and maybe this speaks back to

1477
00:56:21,510 --> 00:56:19,839
one of your points earlier as we're at a

1478
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:21,520
time in history when there's more

1479
00:56:25,190 --> 00:56:23,280
professional liars than

1480
00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:25,200
at any other point in history but i

1481
00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:26,799
don't know how you

1482
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:28,640
how you make your way through the hall

1483
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:31,040
of mirrors yeah i mean

1484
00:56:36,309 --> 00:56:32,960
all you can really do is just toe the

1485
00:56:39,990 --> 00:56:36,319
line and insist on consent a certain

1486
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:40,000
amount of consensus reality like

1487
00:56:42,549 --> 00:56:41,200
like you

1488
00:56:45,670 --> 00:56:42,559
can't

1489
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,680
deny what you're observing like you see

1490
00:56:50,069 --> 00:56:47,680
something and it doesn't match what

1491
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,079
people are saying you just have to like

1492
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:52,400
stick to your guns like like that's all

1493
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:55,280
you can do that's not to say only trust

1494
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:57,040
yourself yeah you should listen to other

1495
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:59,359
people but like

1496
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,440
if things don't add up to you they

1497
00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:03,520
probably don't add up like unless you're

1498
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:07,359
really bad at math right like

1499
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,599
most people i think have an intuitive

1500
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,599
understanding that things are off and

1501
00:57:14,309 --> 00:57:12,880
that

1502
00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:14,319
a lot like

1503
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:15,200
the

1504
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,480
but like

1505
00:57:22,549 --> 00:57:20,319
rightfully they should be

1506
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:22,559
criticized for a lot of the things that

1507
00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:24,559
they have lied about

1508
00:57:29,510 --> 00:57:28,000
in the recent past and and going back

1509
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:29,520
further as well

1510
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:32,240
right where do you stand on the whole

1511
00:57:35,430 --> 00:57:33,920
you got to take the jab you got to wear

1512
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:35,440
a mask

1513
00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:36,960
kind of thing

1514
00:57:42,710 --> 00:57:40,240
you know i was pretty compliant i got

1515
00:57:44,309 --> 00:57:42,720
the vaccine and

1516
00:57:57,270 --> 00:57:44,319
i

1517
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:57,280
most

1518
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:59,119
skeptical of the

1519
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:00,880
like biomedical

1520
00:58:05,270 --> 00:58:02,880
like them trying to bring in all these

1521
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:05,280
policies all that

1522
00:58:08,470 --> 00:58:06,960
yeah but like i

1523
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:08,480
i know enough about

1524
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:10,960
bio weapons research to get myself in

1525
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:12,880
trouble which is to say that like they

1526
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:14,720
were specifically testing that over

1527
00:58:21,190 --> 00:58:16,000
there

1528
00:58:23,670 --> 00:58:21,200
were studying this exact thing and then

1529
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:23,680
it got out so like

1530
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:25,839
i'm very skeptical of like the policies

1531
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:28,480
they're rolling out i'm not necessarily

1532
00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:29,920
doubting

1533
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:33,359
the existence of the virus or

1534
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:34,960
the uh

1535
00:58:39,270 --> 00:58:37,920
you know vaccines and then i just have

1536
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:39,280
right now it's as to what they're

1537
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:42,079
instrumentalizing it for oh exactly i

1538
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:43,200
mean i

1539
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:44,720
that's another thing it's like the flat

1540
00:58:48,309 --> 00:58:46,640
earth thing which you identified as a

1541
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:48,319
sciop i think flat earth is a complete

1542
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:51,040
sciop it's a way to take the

1543
00:58:55,589 --> 00:58:53,440
the truther community and divide them

1544
00:58:57,270 --> 00:58:55,599
and then oh we can just any of these

1545
00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:57,280
people who got on this side we can just

1546
00:59:01,030 --> 00:58:58,799
write them off oh they're flat earth

1547
00:59:02,549 --> 00:59:01,040
people i think the the same is true with

1548
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:02,559
the virus and it really caught me about

1549
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:04,640
surprised the first time i i was talking

1550
00:59:09,670 --> 00:59:07,200
to david ike when he's like there is no

1551
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,680
virus you know there is no virus and i

1552
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:11,119
like i just talked to andy kaufman there

1553
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:12,880
was no virus i go

1554
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:14,160
david

1555
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:20,000
flu that it was a it was an op how are

1556
00:59:24,950 --> 00:59:22,559
you burying your head in the sand this

1557
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:24,960
time it's clearly an out and the other

1558
00:59:27,750 --> 00:59:26,240
thing is if you really look at the

1559
00:59:29,349 --> 00:59:27,760
science and i might just take this out

1560
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:29,359
because i think it detracts from the

1561
00:59:34,870 --> 00:59:32,400
other conversation we're having but the

1562
00:59:35,910 --> 00:59:34,880
like you said the wuhan lab the gain of

1563
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:35,920
function

1564
00:59:39,270 --> 00:59:37,119
the when they

1565
00:59:42,069 --> 00:59:39,280
break down you know we can genetically

1566
00:59:43,990 --> 00:59:42,079
decode the virus and it doesn't add up

1567
00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:44,000
and there's this excellent video i know

1568
00:59:48,150 --> 00:59:45,280
if you've ever seen this but this guy

1569
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:48,160
does he says there's actually a website

1570
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:51,119
that lets you look at strings of genetic

1571
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:52,960
code to see where they're at and this is

1572
00:59:57,510 --> 00:59:55,839
used kind of from a legal standpoint for

1573
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:57,520
patents you know

1574
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:00,400
he goes through and he does it step by

1575
01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:03,839
step you know any at the end of the day

1576
01:00:09,030 --> 01:00:06,160
it's modern patents

1577
01:00:10,870 --> 01:00:09,040
very very convincing there's no way this

1578
01:00:12,390 --> 01:00:10,880
is an organic virus there's a bunch of

1579
01:00:14,789 --> 01:00:12,400
people have said that because there's

1580
01:00:17,109 --> 01:00:14,799
clear evidence of gene splicing and then

1581
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,119
for certain sequences in that to be in a

1582
01:00:21,109 --> 01:00:19,440
patent on moderna which isn't which is

1583
01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:21,119
like a fake company to begin with is

1584
01:00:25,109 --> 01:00:22,720
kind of invented doesn't really have

1585
01:00:26,549 --> 01:00:25,119
anything you know you cannot pack that

1586
01:00:29,430 --> 01:00:26,559
back into

1587
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:29,440
oh it was an accident they tried to keep

1588
01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:33,040
us safe and it just didn't work

1589
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:35,839
and then you see certain people who

1590
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:37,920
arguably have gotten things right in the

1591
01:00:43,349 --> 01:00:40,640
past almost intentionally

1592
01:00:45,990 --> 01:00:43,359
take the wrong stance on this it raises

1593
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:46,000
some questions great great point

1594
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:48,160
well uh it's been great having you on

1595
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:49,599
spend a couple hours maybe we'll break

1596
01:00:53,349 --> 01:00:51,280
it into two maybe i'll leave it as one

1597
01:00:56,470 --> 01:00:53,359
but thanks so much for joining me on

1598
01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:56,480
skeptico thank you very much thanks

1599
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:58,480
again to jimmy falun gong for joining me

1600
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,280
today on skeptico the one question i t

1601
01:01:06,549 --> 01:01:03,119
up from this interview is

1602
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:06,559
what are your values what values do you

1603
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:08,160
value most

1604
01:01:13,750 --> 01:01:10,480
and more importantly how do you think

1605
01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:13,760
they might influence your beliefs about

1606
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:16,160
so many of the topics that we talk about

1607
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:18,799
here on skeptico how do your values

1608
01:01:24,150 --> 01:01:21,440
influence your beliefs on the ufo topic

1609
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:24,160
we talked about or on the left right

1610
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:26,720
paradigm we talked about or on the whole

1611
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:29,680
topic of conspiracy in conspiracy

1612
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:32,319
theories that seems to come up a lot on

1613
01:01:35,910 --> 01:01:34,160
skeptico

1614
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:35,920
let me know your thoughts

1615
01:01:41,829 --> 01:01:38,480
i'd love to hear from you stay with me

1616
01:01:44,260 --> 01:01:41,839
for much more until next time take care

1617
01:01:57,860 --> 01:01:44,270
and bye for now